In the this episode I sit down with Isaac Cohen (Cabbibo), a fascinating creator at the forefront of VR and AR who has released a number of apps and experiences that push the boundaries - you can find some of his pieces on Steam. He has a background in physics and interface design, previously worked at Leap Motion, and has been an artist in residence at Unity and Adobe. Isaac shares his views on why realism in VR is the wrong approach and how developers need to approach it in a transformative rather than a derivative way. He describes the ARkit workflow, how he thinks about using AR to give users agency, and why emotional efficiency is important in computing. He gets into some of the UX insights he's picked up along the way, which creators inspire his work, what today's corporates can learn from the long-term research done at places like Xerox PARC, and the role artists play in pointing them towards the right questions.